• Pat Martin, Assistant Vice President for the National Office of School Counselor Advocacy, The College Board

I'm Pat Martin and I am the Assistant Vice President for the National Office of School Counselor Advocacy. It's an office in the College Board in the division of advocacy, government relations and development, and we work with school counselors at the College Board. Our objectives at NOSCA are centered around making counseling important in the nation and part of all education reform that is happening in schools today.

The project that we're talking about today is the one that we're calling our counselor-principal relationship activity or project. We're working with two of the big national organizations for principals and counselors, so that we can look at and help school counselors and principals understand how their relationship, when it works well, contributes to the academic growth of all students in the building

• Jon Prince School Principal; Olga Middleton School Counselor; Palm Beach Gardens High School

I seek her counsel because I consider her to be a person who understands perception, how things are going to-politically how things work. And I seek her counsel all the time, and I ask her to sit in on meetings that sometimes she doesn't—she probably thinks are a waste of time simply because I want her opinion and I value her opinion.

• Vernita Jefferson, School Counselor; Anita Berger, School Principal; Benjamin Banneker Academic High School

I think we share passion for student success. She has maintained that support that we need for the guidance department. She respects the guidance program.

• Dick Flanary, Senior Director for Leadership Programs and Services, National Association of Secondary School Principals

My name is Dick Flanary, and I serve as Senior Director for Leadership Programs and Services at NASSP. NASSP is a membership organization serving both middle level and high school principals, assistant principals, and aspiring school leaders. We've had a wonderful collaboration with the College Board, the American School Counselor Association, around this principal-counselor project.

The Relationship between Counselors and Principals is a critical connection for the success of schools today and that connection and working relationship that those entities have are more important then they have ever been for the success of every student.

For so many years, we saw the principalship as a top down kind of structure and most successful schools now are successful because of a decentralization of the authority and leadership teams are a critical part of that success. Counselors play a critical role as a part of that leadership team.

• Mel Riddile, Former School Principal; Laura Newton Cotto, School Counselor; TC Williams High School

I'm about distributed leadership. The more complicated you get, the more expertise you need, and the better decisions are made by more people. So what I want to do is get a bunch of leaders in their areas advocating for their areas and keeping us all up to date so we're all making better decisions.

• Ellen Farmer, School Counselor; Molly Howard, School Principal; Cullen Porter, School Counselor; Jefferson County High School

I don't know that you can put this in one word, but Dr. Howard protects the integrity of what we do. She knows what counselors are supposed to be doing, and that's what we're able to spend 85% of the day doing.

• Donna Amador, School Counselor; James Dierke, School Principal; Visitacion Valley Middle School

I think it has to start with the principal. I think the principal has to be, A, open to other people having different styles, but communicating to the staff where the boundaries are. And then having trust. I think trust is a big thing. You know, I don't go sit in Donna's office and figure out what she's doing. She'll come and tell me what she's doing when she needs my help.

• Richard Wong, Executive Director of the American School Counselor Association

I'm Richard Wong, I'm the executive director of the American School Counselor Association. We are a non-profit association that represents school counselors across the country.

We believe that school counselors can be very important in the academic success of students as well as their personal/social growth and preparing them for successful careers afterwards. In the past, too often, their ability to function has been dependent on their relationship with the principals. So we would like school counselors and principals work together to define a relationship.

What we would like to see is for people to use the materials and the information from this project to define the role of the school counselors in the schools, to define the relationships between the principals and the school counselors, and to improve them. One of the ways that they can improve them is to have a firm agreement about what exactly the school counselor should do in the school, what a school counselor can accomplish, and just as importantly, what a school counselor should not do.

• Ricardo Damian, School Principal; Tammi Mackeben, School Counselor; Ernesto Serna School

He actually sat down and he said, let's sit down and then he told me what was going on and ask me, like what do you think. What should we—I don't remember how it was even worded, but it was basically the point that he just asked me for my professional opinion. He wanted input from me like to work as a team on making a decision about something that was important. So that was the first like aha moment to me that this was going to be like a real team effort. You know, we're going to be working together. And I couldn't even tell you what it was because there's been like 1,000 of those.

• Shelby Wyatt, School Counselor; Elizabeth Kirby, School Principal; Kenwood Academy

I want to begin by saying mutual respect has grown, and that helps. When you see your counselors and your principal, she and I working together in concert with each other, then that models for the students, and it encourages them to stretch.

• Doreen Finkelstein, Research Scientist; The College Board

Hello, my name is Doreen Finkelstein, and I'm a research scientist at the College Board. School principals and school counselors have something in common: both want to see students succeed.

In order to gain insight into this relationship we designed a survey in the summer of 2008 that asked both principals and counselors to tell us their views on the principal-counselor relationship.

We wanted to hear from principals and counselors:

• What are the important elements of a successful principal-counselor relationship?
• Are these elements present in the relationship between principal and counselors in their own school?
• What are their views on the importance of various counselors' activities for improving student outcomes?
• What are the biggest challenges for equity?
• And finally, what are the most important roles of the principal and counselor in educational reform efforts?

Invitations to take this survey were sent to principals from NASSP membership lists, counselors from ASCA membership lists and individuals who attended College Board counseling workshops the previous fall. We had over 2,300 people respond to the survey for an overall response rate of 14%

Here are just a few of the key findings:
Both principals and counselors agreed that out of various counselor activities, doing supportive administrative tasks is less important for improving student outcomes.
It was interesting that principals rated these tasks as taking up less of counselors' time while counselors rated them as taking up more of their time

However, principals and counselors both agreed that it was important for counselors to spend time on helping to promote student personal growth and social development, and helping students with career planning.

One area of concern in schools today is the challenge of equity. As part of the survey, principals and counselors were presented with six areas where there could be gaps between student subgroups, and asked to rank them in terms of which are in greatest need of being addressed in their own schools.

Principals and counselors most frequently ranked "state test scores" as the No. 1 area where gaps between subgroups most needed to be addressed in their schools. If they didn't say state test scores, principals were most likely to say the biggest gap in need of being addressed was enrollment in honors, advanced placement and international baccalaureate classes, while counselors were most likely to say it was drop-out rates.

Survey participants were asked 'What is the biggest barrier to effective collaboration between counselors and principals in terms of education reform efforts?' The most common answer was lack of time. We also asked about the roles of the principal and counselor in education reform efforts. Both principals and counselors tended to say that the role of the principal is to be a leader and the role of the counselor is to be an advocate

We hope that by sharing the results of the survey we can inspire principals, counselors and other educators to examine the principal-counselor relationships in their own schools, and determine how they might be able to best help each other improve the educational outcomes for all students. When principals and counselors can work effectively together, their efforts stand a far better chance of making a difference and helping all students achieve.